Chat Transcript: Question of Evil
May 16, 2014
Here's the chat transcript from the first chat seminar of a series, from 5-16-14 at Creepy Hollows Merry May Event, with myself and Voidwalker, focused on the topics of:
Benevolent Demons; Humanitarian Dark Pagans; Lucifer as Lightbearer - the question of evil and misconceptions in the Dark Arts, a thought provoking excursion into the misconceptions about things that go bump in the night.
Adelphia: so, let's talk about evil, shall we, ?!
Lord_Validus: What is evil? =P
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Lord_Validus: What is good?
Adelphia: and where does evil come from?
Lord_Validus: Greetings Amethyst
Adelphia: although I think those are broader questions than we are looking to address here
AmethystRayne: hey val
Voidwalker: Welcome, Amethyst
Adelphia: how about humans who practice evil
AmethystRayne: hey void
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Voidwalker: Welcome Ika
lalaDinky: people who practice evil
Lord_Validus: Greetings Ika
Adelphia: and the misconceptions thereof!
Shrapnel: can i bring up a concenpt of sorts im thinking of?
lalaDinky: interesting perspective already ::::O
Adelphia: yeah it's a can of worms. snakes! lol. With the demonization involved and the various angles, the whole energy of the topic is a jumbled mass, a purposeful, confused mess
Adelphia: sure Shrapnel, go ahead
Shrapnel: now lets say someone kill someone. most people would consider that evil but lets say this person was killed for the greater good. now is that evil or good? how can we define what is evil as some acts can be done for good?
Shrapnel: food for thought
Adelphia: well it's like I was saying on FB, the other day, 'do as thou wilt, with harm to none' - UNLESS...
lalaDinky: I wanna hear the hosts on this. What kind of well known people do you consider evil? Hitler? Bieber?
Adelphia: Unless you have to go Black Magick on someone's ass in retribution, justice, or self-defence. Then it's on.
Lord_Validus: Good and evil are relative concepts. The blackest evil for one person can be the whitest good for another
Adelphia: for me, evil is a question of ethics
Shrapnel: so more or less it is the intention of the act you do
Voidwalker: I think that Shrapnel head the nail on the head. Who really defines evil?
Lord_Validus: Hitler was just a bigot, lol
Adelphia: evil is everywhere and anyone can dive into evil or be drawn into it or possessed in essence by evil
lalaDinky: darkness is not the same as evil though ya
Adelphia: It takes strong self-discipline to be able to work and roam in the realms of darkness and yet maintain a solid sense of ethics
Voidwalker: That is very true
Shrapnel: i think it all boils down to intention
Adelphia: evil is basically about selfish consideration and lack of compassion
Shrapnel: in my example the person killed for the good
Shrapnel: buut someone who just killed for fun or to be ruthless well..
Adelphia: sociopathic human personalities, psychopaths, and those types, are more prone to acts of evil
lalaDinky: is evil something you want to embrace in yourself and explore, or something you wish to minimize in yourself.
lalaDinky: I would think latter
Adelphia: yes, the latter, there are 2 distinct groups or schools of thought in the Dark Arts and LHP
AmethystRayne: hey nin
Psychicninja: Hi void
lalaDinky: hi angel
Adelphia: so that is where there is a lot of confusion about evil
Lord_Validus: Greetings Angelite
Angelite: Hello Everyone
Voidwalker: hi, Angelite
lalaDinky: I see where that could get confused
Angelite: Hi lala, Validus, Void
Psychicninja: hi Ammy
Adelphia: there are those in the DA who embrace evil and those who are compassionate
Lord_Validus: It's all a matter of opinion anyway. I mean, a person can literally do anything and define it as "just" in their own minds, just as they could think it wrong but not care.
Adelphia: we can redefine 'darkness' and being accustomed to it, we can call ourselves 'evil' in a redefined way, it's part of our de-demonization of our ancient traditions BUT... when we do stuff like that, we are not saying 'hey I'm evil, I am LHP, and tonight I will sacrifice a human' or 'do as thou wilt, let me go rip everyone off' while cackling wildly. We who think like this are a part of the LHP and the DA who embrace higher ethical standards and work with the darkness with discipline not to succumb to our own evil inner urges and the evil that surrounds us
Angelite: How do you reign yourself in?
lalaDinky: I see. and then there are those that intentionally cause pain, fear and trauma for enjoyment...like the mainstream-fed image of satanists...
Adelphia: great question! I believe it is a part of the process of evolution and ascending to higher frequencies and merging more and more with your higher selves and so on
Adelphia: yes exactly. there are many who choose to serve evil. it to me, is ignorant
Adelphia: i am a humanitarian so I have strong opinions about evil
Voidwalker: For myself, I reign myself in by realizing that i have responsibilty that comes with my gifts.
Voidwalker: To misuse n=my gifts, is to insult and disgrace myself
Angelite: For those who choose to serve evil, surely even that is a well-calculated decision, and not ignorant
Adelphia: also regarding the choice to serve evil or serve a greater good, can you see the parallels between evil RHP religionists (and their mass murders) and evil lhp-ers? very interesting to consider there is mirror reflections of the same types of evil on both the black and white side of the spectrum
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Adelphia: not necessarily Angelite and I have a good quote from a book by EA Koetting which addresses how one can get lost in evil
Angelite: No doubt
Lord_Validus: What exactly is "serving evil"? Is it going chaotic and wild without restraint? Or is it intentionally making suffer for the sake of "spreading darkness"?
Voidwalker: How very true, and that has been the cae for millenia. Adel
Lord_Validus: making people suffer*
Lord_Validus: Greetings Darkangel
lalaDinky: lord V, that would not be darkness
Angelite: hi darkangel
Adelphia: 'serving evil' is acting in ways that hurt others, selfishly, with no consideration. that is the ethical basic definition of evil
Adelphia: you can do it consciously or unconsciously, we all do it, is part of being human!
3xcalibur: I can do no bad, for I do not know what it is.....I think theres a difference lol. Ignorance IS bliss.
Adelphia: evolving is transcending this and choosing to be both powerful and disciplined
Lord_Validus: Would you agree what evil=BA Adelphia?
Adelphia: thanks Void, indeed
Adelphia: BA is a definition that varies so it depends on the definition of BA first lol
Lord_Validus: BA meaning no loyalty to others whatsoever, attack and destroy everything mentality here
Adelphia: yes so true, ignorance is bliss and is definitely a part of the equation even for the gods who serve evil!
Angelite: So there is light even in the darkness.....and pitch black in the light
Lord_Validus: Greetings Rose
Voidwalker: Absolutely Angelite
Adelphia: yes and our definitions of dark and light also vary. keep in mind that our rainbow of light that we can see is only a minute fraction of the spectrum of light waves and frequencies we are bathed in
ArtemisRose: Greetings Lord Validus. Hi everyone! ^_^
amberangst: What did i miss?
Adelphia: then yes, Lord Validus, no loyalty to me is ethically evil, as is complete intent on destruction
Lord_Validus: Adelphia, would you consider a group of people that are 100% loyal to one another, but have 0% loyalty to anyone outside the group, who use and make suffer anyone outside the group, evil? In this case, the people can be loyal, and are VERY loyal to those inside their group...just not to anyone outside it. Is this group evil?
Lord_Validus: WB Amb
Voidwalker: Lord V, do they do anything for the betterment of anyone other than themselves?
Lord_Validus: It's a hypothetical group, and each person helps out each other person. So they do help others...just not others outside of their group
shadowdust: then the group is not evil wihin people the group, but evil with outsider. :p
shadowdust: hmm, maybe evil is not a right word.
ArtemisRose: sounds almost like what a cult would sound like to me..
Adelphia: "There is an addiction in evil stronger than any drug, and it should only be yielded to under certainly controlled circumstances. Many who are already on sanity's border will be pushed to the point of never regaining their own will. The demons most definitely will exploit this, and live vicariously through their new host, either through continued commands or through full possession." -EA Koetting, Evoking Eternity. This will be more explored in the blog with the context of this quote
shadowdust: since this case you only talk about loyal.
Adelphia: yes Lord Validus, they are practicing a service to self philosophy. Loyalty to group is easy and there are many, many hidden groups who are very evil with strong loyalty among members, both in human, and in the demonic realms
Voidwalker: And, for that matter, in many realms. Evil exists in all realms, not just the Infernal. Everywhere.
Adelphia: definitely, throughout the universe and all the realms and dimensions within it
lalaDinky: what about dealing in deities that have chaotic and destructive aspects to them? People can cause harm intentionally under their name. Case and point the thuggees of India who believe they're the children of Kali
Angelite: Loyalty is not a measure of good or eveil
lalaDinky: *case in point
Voidwalker: lala, another case inpoint would be the Romans under Maximillian.
Lord_Validus: What groups are there like this in the human world Adelphia?
lalaDinky: that too
Adelphia: yes that is integral to the Dark Arts, we work with these deities who have those aspect by our own choice, there are many Grey natured deities. So it boils down to your self-control and your purpose of working with those deities. A person with strong self-discipline and ethical boundaries can work with a chaotic or darker entity with very strong results - and it can provide a huge leap in their own personal evolution. It can be like an evolving initiation. One challenges themselves and not everyone can pass the test.
Voidwalker: I think that most deities that are viewed as evil, are in fact, Grey natured. They may be darker, but they stil have the capacity to execute actions that aren't completely selfish or outright mailcious.
ArtemisRose: hi Fire �
Adelphia: welcome fire
Voidwalker: Hi Fire.
Voidwalker: In being a deity, a certain duality is implied.
Adelphia: that is a good point Void. It goes back to your notes on Maximillian
Voidwalker: Be it an evil deity...or a good one...
Adelphia: or the initial demonization which causes a lot of confusion about whether a particular deity is seen as benevolent or malevolent
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Adelphia: humans are very black and white thinkers so it is more challenging to see the shades of grey involved. Demonization takes advantage of the natural human tendency towards
black and white thinking
Lord_Validus: Before we go further, I'd just like to say that I disagree with you Adelphia. I am of the mind that there is no true good or evil, only power. Everyone can say that something is "good" or "evil" but at the end of the day it's all a matter of opinion, because there are no absolutes when it comes to matters of morality.
fire083: I think it interesting that a lot of people forget that good and evil are opposite sides of the same coin and one can not be defined with out the other to an extent
lalaDinky: I can see that
Adelphia: there are absolutes Validus and I disagree with you on that also
Adelphia: if i murder you or torture and abuse a small child or animal, such action is ethically evil as it causes suffering with no greater purpose
Lord_Validus: Then we will agree to disagree
Adelphia: of course
lalaDinky: that's why I disregard the Goetia as an example, since I know a lot of religions kinda smeared and demonified a lot of root deities for their own jealousy...
Angelite: Is it possible to immerse oneself in darkness and evil and still emerge unscathed and untouched by malevolence?
Voidwalker: Actually lala, that is precisely the example I gave of Maximillian
Adelphia: Angelite: yes it is
fire083: it's deffinatly not easy
fire083: but if it was then everyone would do it
Adelphia: exactly fire on both counts lol
Voidwalker: To answer your statement, lala, Maximillian was a Roman emperor.
Voidwalker: Now, he was terrible at two things. Strategy and Warfare.
Angelite: So the intention is to use the darkness and evil for the greater good of oneself and humanity?
Adelphia: evil is an ethical thing... darkness, it varies by definition
Lord_Validus: This Maximilian?
Voidwalker: One sec, Lord V. I'm gettign there.
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Adelphia: one doesn't need to use evil for a greater good, but one can work with darkness for a greater good if that makes sense. Evil is something a person needs to know and master and that is a part of the journey in the DA
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Voidwalker: So he decided that the next best way to cow the common folks into submission was to take something that couldn't be gotten back.
Lord_Validus: Wb Cat
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lalaDinky: ah ha
fire083: hi cat catzpurr: hi
Voidwalker: He stole their faith.
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Lord_Validus: Is that the right Maximilian Void?
lalaDinky: I see...
Angelite: Thank u for explaining, Adelphia...and setting them apart 4 me
Adelphia: thanks for the question �
Voidwalker: Yes, Lord V. And, in doing so, began to systematically break down the religions of the indigenous peoples he wished to conquer.
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Lord_Validus: WB Drake
Voidwalker: He assimilated enough of their customs to keep from causing riots in the streets, and began to demonize any of their deities that he could.
lalaDinky: I see...
Voidwalker: As a side note, that's where tholidays like Easter and Christmas come
Lord_Validus: Ah yes, X mas was once Yule...correct?
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Lord_Validus: WB Dark
Voidwalker: When he found that folks wouldn't lay down and take his beating quite as easily as he thought, he sent out a secretive group of priests. Yes, Lord V.
Darkangel7443: Ty ^_^
fire083: well the original celebration of the birth of christ was much earlier in the year
lalaDinky: oh my goodness
fire083: not so secrative any more jesuits have been known as holly assassins for a while now
Angelite: If u look around in the world today, esp the ruling class n govts, you can draw parallels to what Maximillian did
Voidwalker: Correct, Fire. These priests were trained in a particular form of the Rites of Apollo. They used these Rites to pin down the places of power in Europe, and sever their connections with the native practitioners, Particularly the Druids.
Voidwalker: Absolutely, Angelite. And, what's worse, is that what maximillian did has become so ingrained in our being thousands of years later, we have come to demonize anything that we were taught is evil.
fire083: they also messed up the americas
Voidwalker: Think about the last "scary movie" you saw...what was the "villian"? (not counting human slasher flicks) And, yes they did Fire. They messed up a ton of places.
Lord_Validus: What is the "ruling class"?
Voidwalker: Ruling class of what Lord V?
Angelite: which is why we need to educate ourselves in this....to avoid falling prey to such rhetoric, designed to amass power in the hands of a select few
Lord_Validus: The one Angelite spoke of
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lalaDinky: it's almost always a demon or demonic ghost or an alien...
reddogwillow: my apologies for being late . . .
Voidwalker: Exactly, Angelite. And, to keep them from subjugating those they wish to rule over. And, that lala is my point precisely!
Lord_Validus: Greetings Red
Adelphia: we are going need to be wrapping up in the next few minutes. clearly we are just barely scratching the surface! I will work on a blog on the first topic that evolved in this seminar, regarding evil, ethical implications and philosophical definitions.
I would love to see the background of the story of demonization as told by V
Voidwalker: Lord V, ruling class are those in power.
Adelphia: so true Angelite, we do need to educate ourselves, and spread the word
Voidwalker: Hi, red
fire083: hey red
Adelphia: void: the things that go Bump in the Night!
Voidwalker: I shall gather my info and get things together for a post ASAP!
reddogwillow: hello Lord Validus, Voidwalker, fire083 �
Adelphia: yes please!!!\
Adelphia: it is great to discuss in chat but even better when organized into a blog
Adelphia: we'll have comments of course and we'll open new forum threads and new forum categories asap
Lord_Validus: Those in power Void?
Lord_Validus: Like Obama and senators and etc?
Lord_Validus: Or "secret people"?
fire083: that would be one example of a ruling class
lalaDinky: alright Adelphia ::::) thanks so much this is an interesting topic to dig into
Voidwalker: Lord V...that, my firend is a whole other ball of wax...
reddogwillow: I miscalulated the time zone conversion �
Angelite: Yet, adelphia....some choose not to be 'educated' by choice...or fear.....or plain ignorance. The ones who relentless seek the truth are but few
Adelphia: yeah it is as 3x said. ignorance is bliss. this can be a very conscious choice!
Angelite: We barely touched on the topic, I think. Wish this seminar could go on and on!
Adelphia: some people define evil as apathy. seeing evil action/harm take place to some living being, and not intervening
Voidwalker: Myself as well, Angel
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Angelite: If u ask me, passively allowing evil to happen is evil in itself
Adelphia: aw sorry reddog but i will post up the chat transcript and we have blogs on the topic coming out and monthly or twice monthly chat seminars on this topic at DBR
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lalaDinky: to me true evil would find pleasure in the suffering of others
reddogwillow: Yay! That;s great, Adelphia �
Adelphia: both apathy and such pleasure are definitely aspects of evil
Adelphia: as well it is something that i believe is part of human nature, inside all of us
Adelphia: which is why we need to know it and know how to control it and rise above it
Adelphia: i believe that is part of the path of ascension
Angelite: well said adelphia
Adelphia: so! lol! I hope you guys are all on the email list @ DBR. Newsletters will go out with the new blog posts, new forum threads, and new chat times for the next seminars!
Adelphia: thanks �
lalaDinky: ugh, I wish thid could go on more lol. I am looking forward to your blog posts
Voidwalker: Thanks for joining us! �
Angelite: I need to subscribe!
Adelphia: i know it went so fast and I enjoyed it - thanks everyone for coming
Angelite: Thank u for having us, Adelphia
lalaDinky: Thanks so much for the brain food OM NOM NOM
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fire083: Adelphia would you be adverse to this being posted in a general section as well for those who don't have blog acces
Lord_Validus: Wb Amethyst
reddogwillow: Sorry I missed practically the whole thing, lol! But thank you for doing this seminar/chat Adelphia and Voidwalker!
Adelphia: mmmm yummmyyyy foood for thought the best kind of foood!!!
Angelite: hi amethyst
Adelphia: to be continued!!
Voidwalker: Join us on DBR, Red!
Lord_Validus: Have a good day Adelphia
Adelphia: on DBR or on CH fire?
Adelphia: on DBR it will be out in public �
lalaDinky: thank you and ciao~ lalaDinky has left.
reddogwillow: I'll be there, Voidwalker �
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Voidwalker: I look forward to seeing you there, Red
reddogwillow: Thanks again! Take care! �
Adelphia: thanks everyone!
fire083: what I was here for was interesting
Angelite: Have a good day. And thanks for your time, Voidwalker
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ArtemisRose: Have a good day everyone !
Adelphia: k fire well you can definitely find this material coming out on DBR, notes from this seminar transcript as well as new blogs and articles on the topc!
Adelphia D. Blood
Adelphia D. Blood, -site founder